Lyris Lite :: Broken X360 plus Region coding: who foots the bill?

Thursday, February 21, 2008

Broken X360 plus Region coding: who foots the bill?

We're well aware of the movie and game industry practices of region locking their software to tie users into buying discs from specific territories. In the past, the differences between NTSC and PAL TV systems were typically enough to deter free trade, but now that that's no longer an issue and now that most games and high-def movies run on a worldwide-compatible 60hz HDTV system, the companies have to introduce artificial lockouts in order to keep the gig up.

The average guy or girl on the streets of Europe probably still thinks that games and movies from the US "don't work" over here because "they use a different system". That's if they've thought about it at all - although most Brits seem to think of the American cultural psyche as insular and ignorant of the world at large, most of the people I know still consider a game or film to "not be out" when what they really mean is "not available to buy from my local shop". (I had a funny conversation with a friend here, asking him if he wanted to play my US copy of TRAUMA CENTER for the Wii, released about half a year earlier in the US - his reaction was "I don't want to play it, it's not out yet" - when I was holding it in front of him!)

So public ignorance and apathy means that they can keep getting away with it, and keep charging Europeans higher prices for the same or inferior products. (Well, they can usually get away with it - Nintendo were fined 149 million Euros in 2002 for keeping prices artificially high in the European market).

ANYWAY! My American Xbox 360 is broken. Microsoft UK tell me that if they repair their notoriously unreliable hardware, they'll only be able to provide a European version console back. That would be fine - but my games are American and many of them will not play on a European 360. The call centre people tell me that the American Xbox 360 is a COMPLETELY different system and is mystical and alien. In reality, since the region lockout is completely artificial, I'm fairly sure that Microsoft will have a way of lifting a stock console and setting it to any region code that they wish (I must point out that Microsoft are much better than many other companies when it comes to region coding: it seems to be here to appease the likes of CAPCOM and other publishers - Microsoft themselves typically release games without locks and on in time in all territories). Anyway, the call centre people have to read from a script and wouldn't understand this anyway, so that option is out of the question.

Similarly, Microsoft US are happy to service my US 360 under warranty, under the condition that it's routed through a friend in America's address first. I've not weighed the 360 for shipping to and from the USA, but I imagine that's going to be expensive. Simply put, I don't see why I should foot the bill for the mess that they've created.

By the way, I've tried asking the people over the phone in the UK call centre (which seems to be in India or another territory where English isn't the first language) if I can speak to someone higher up. They don't seem to understand the request, again perhaps because English isn't native to them.

Isn't it interesting that the games industry thinks it can save money by moving operations half way across the world, yet I'm supposedly not allowed to swap games with my friends in the States?

Anyway, I'm still waiting to hear from someone higher up at Microsoft. If it does come to shipping it back to the US for service, it's not going to be the worst thing to happen because I can combine it with other items I'll be sending over for business soon, anyway. And, I'll be paying money to the shipping company, not to the games industry for their dodgy practices. But that's still money out of my pocket that their bureaucracy and backward thinking is making me pay.

I imagine the European 360s are distinct in hardware to American and Japanese units, in that they have PAL support in the video DAC chip (which, admittedly, you don't need for your HD set). Either way, I think it's a little optimistic to expect the people at returns to modify a UK unit to have USA region. In fact, I'm surprised the UK wing of MS even offered to replace it.

I'm not saying you shouldn't import hardware, but if you do I think it's fairly predictable that the company will wash their hands of responsibility for the unit. Devil's advocate: you're not playing by the rules, so why should they?

Alc
February 23, 2008 9:32 PM

Oh my, its a rule now that as a consumer you actually ARENT allowed to make purchases from anywhere in the world? Thats a new one on me :rolleyes:

Graham
February 23, 2008 10:46 PM

Alc, I wouldn't be so sure about the hardware being unique - if the original Xbox is anything to go by, that is.

Yes, you're right, it's optimistic and not surprising that Microsoft US aren't footing the shipping bill. Normally I'd completely understand this. But considering the lousy quality of their hardware, I'd expect them to go the extra mile.

David Mackenzie
February 24, 2008 2:46 PM

Graham: in a lot of cases, no, you're not, since you'd be evading taxation. That's why in the UK we have customs and excise who check packages coming into the country, and if you're trying to import a product without paying the relevant taxes (especially consumer electronics) then you're liable to get a hefty release charge if they catch you.

This is a slight tangent, I suppose, since the only "rules" in this particular case that matter are those set by Microsoft, and they have decreed that their hardware will have distinct regions (hard-coded or not). This is done purely to maximise profit in different regions by preventing all consumers from purchasing from the cheapest. Consequently, ringing up Microsoft and saying that you imported a 360 (for the sole purpose of decreasing their profits) is unlikely to elicit a positive response, and asking them to fix it now it's broken is definitely pushing it. In this sense the vague global consumer rights you allude to are irrelevant - I doubt Trading Standards are going to weigh in on David's behalf. As someone who's imported game hardware myself many times in the past, it's part of the risk you take on.

Commiserations, David. I don't mean to sound harsh, in a perfect world they would fix it for you, but in that world there'd be no regions anyway. In this world, we are stuck with repair center staff who are unlikely in the extreme to have the first clue about how to change the region on a 360, putting aside whether it's possible at all (you're right about the original Xbox, you're probably right about the 360 too).

Alc
February 26, 2008 11:01 PM

Alc:

>> That's why in the UK we have customs and excise who check packages coming into the country, and if you're trying to import a product without paying the relevant taxes (especially consumer electronics) then you're liable to get a hefty release charge if they catch you.

It's telling the way that you word that - "if they catch you". "Catch" to me implies doing something illegal or wrong. It's a tax - not a penalty or fine.

BTW, I didn't tell them I imported a 360. The way I phrased it was that "It was bought in North America" which it was. That, coupled with my Mid-Atlantic accent, is probably why Microsoft USA agreed they'd service it.

If I had a strong Scottish accent, would they have been as willing? I don't think they would.

But yes, as you say, this is the risk. BTW, It's being repaired by 3rd party means. So I'll be back playing DMC4 soon :D

David Mackenzie
February 26, 2008 11:06 PM

As a UK citizen, you are bound by law to pay tax on your purchases. Tax evasion can carry a jail term... how else would you like me to put it other than "caught"?

I'd distinguish between illegal and wrong, by the way - tax dodging may be illegal, but in this case it's trivial and I certainly don't think importing hardware and software is morally objectionable. Hell, I do it enough.

>If I had a strong Scottish accent, would they have been as willing? I don't think they would.

Less likely, yeah. I seem to remember a friend trying to return a blown US N64 and getting bluntly refused by both the import shop and NoA.

>It's being repaired by 3rd party means.

I'd be interested to hear how that turns out.

(No BBcode or html? Boo.)

Alc
February 27, 2008 12:38 AM

I didn't know we were talking about tax dodging, yeah, "caught" would be the right term in that context! But I was simply referring to buying stuff from other countries.

David Mackenzie
February 27, 2008 2:11 AM

"although most Brits seem to think of the American cultural psyche as insular and ignorant of the world at large"

You mean they aren't? I'm from the US, and that's been my overwhelming experience with just about everyone else I know.

Karma
March 2, 2008 8:54 PM

I think they both are. The Brits probably have a better concept of "rest of world" due to being in Europe and right beside France, Germany, etc. But that doesn't mean they'll (we'll?) actually know much more than that.

David Mackenzie
March 2, 2008 9:07 PM

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