Lyris Lite :: Toshiba HD-EP30 HD DVD player: wow, no wonder this format lost

UPDATE: one reader has replied and sent visual evidence showing that his HD-EP30 does not suffer from this problem. Confusing...

My brother ordered an HD-EP30 HD DVD player, coincidentally enough on the very same day that Toshiba announced they'd be ditching the format (Feb 19th). The player cost only £70 and can, unlike the Xbox 360, output 1080p/24 for smooth playback on his collection of 50+ HD DVD discs. Yes, this player proudly boasts that it can output 1080p video, at 24fps no less.

Unfortunately, there's one slight problem. The 1080p output mode looks like crap. It does not accurately reproduce 1:1 video from the HD DVD disc (like an Xbox 360 outputting 1080p would) and instead throws away a lot of resolution and creates ugly ringing around contrasting tones. Now, when I first saw this, I speculated that the problem would be that the player is internally a 1080i machine and "1080p" support had been poorly botched in to please Toshiba's marketing department. That assumption proved correct, because outputting native 1080i corrected the problem.

But that's not totally OK. Why? First up, this is promoted as a 1080p player. And yet, it doesn't actually resolve all 1080 lines of resolution when in 1080p mode. Second, one of my display devices can't properly handle 1080i, so 1080p input is a necessity for the best experience (additionally, I don't have any way of extracting 1080p/24 from a 1080i/60 source - so I don't have any way of getting 24p video out of this, since that output rate is tied to the botched 1080p resolution).

The biggest problem of all though is that your average customer will simply use the lousy 1080p mode, thinking it's the best, and have no idea that this crappy player is throwing away valuable definition. I suppose it doesn't matter now that the format is dead, but wow, is it any wonder so many people (who don't know any better) assume that Blu-ray presents vastly superior picture quality, when Toshiba are/were putting out garbage like this? The picture quality of this player - and others like it, if they have the same shortcomings - is perhaps partly responsible for the death of the HD DVD format! Had I known about this happening, I'd have been much less inclined to recommend that people purchase HD DVD players. Fortunately for me, I've never explicitly recommended this model because, well, until now I hadn't used one.

Notice how in the botched "1080p" image on the bottom, the single-line details in the bottom box have been completely lost, rendering it entirely white instead of a black-white-black-white line pattern.

It's unbelievable that Toshiba would allow this sort of thing to go out while they were fighting a format war. You know what the most ironic thing of all is? The HD-EP30 was bought as a replacement for an Xbox 360 Elite + HD DVD drive combination, because the X360 is currently bricked with the red ring of death error! With hardware like this, it's perhaps no wonder Microsoft and Toshiba's favoured optical disc format is headed for the bargain bins - despite the many aspects in which it's (at least) comparable to Blu-ray. Astounding, just astounding.

I have this player, and a Sony 40" 1080p LCD. I cannot see this at all. Have you done the firmware update, there have been two since I bought mine in early Jan.

I have the HD version of DVE, and looking at the RP133 test page it looks very crisp.

In 1080p/24 I have watched about 4 movies, including the Bourne series and I can't see any "ringing" - it should be fairly obvious no?

Hey James,

Yeah, it would be. I wasn't aware there was a firmware update out, because I couldn't get the player to connect to my router. I'll be glad if they've fixed that issue, but frankly it's astonishing they'd let it out before the Christmas season with that problem.

James - I just unboxed the player (due for return tomorrow) and updated the firmware - it took long enough to get the damn thing working with my router.

The problem is still there - the 1080p output mode is still terrible. Have you compared the RP133 test from DVE in 1080i vs 1080p?

David,I hadn't noticed this on my setup but yesterday I watched the Hong Kong dvd PTU on the EP35 (the same machine, at least video wise) upscaled to 1080p and it was terrible with jaggies all over.I then tried it on my PS3 at 1080p which was better and then on my Pioneer 575 sending 480i into my Onkyo 875 amp then upscaled to 1080p and it looked great.I then went back to the EP35 at 1080i again through the amp at 1080p and the jaggies were gone and the detail appeared much higher,even though it was going through two processes (the scaling and deinterlacing) I am emailing Play where I bought it from to try to gat a refund this evening.Thanks for the screenshots they may come in handy.

I didn't get a chance to try the SD DVD playback in this machine much.

But you are definitely right about 1080i looking better than 1080p even for DVD upscaling, despite the re-interlacing process. I played a beta version of a disc I'm authoring in the player at 1080p and was a little underwhelmed... going to 1080i sorted it.

Unbelievable! Play will not even talk to me about it without contacting Toshiba so after a very frustrating phone call with Play,I tried Toshiba who predictably said they had not heard of such a problem and that it is a full 1080p player and that I must have a faulty unit and they would pick it up to have a look at it.Unfortunately it will be weeks before this is possible for me so I am not a happy man.After a quick browse on avforums I can't find much more evidence of it so If you know anymore David I would appreciate a heads up.

That doesn't surprise me, I don't think any reviews actually mentioned this fault. Your unit is definitely reproducing it too, right?

If Toshiba or Play.com actually use a professional reference disc like DVE, they'll easily be able to see that it doesn't do 1080p properly. Don't let go of that by any means!

When did you buy the player? Under UK law, you have a 7-8 day (not sure which) cooling off period where you can return goods no matter what.

Fascinating. I've played around with the RP133 test disc on my EP30 and cannot anything wrong. My TV is a Sony KDL-40x3500 40" 1080p LCD, and a direct HDMI connection.

Unfortunately my only other player is a PC based setup, and I can't get the DVE menus to work in PowerDVD, so can't select the test image.

I'm also not sure how to photograph the screen. David, I guess you need an SLR spec camera with a tripod to get your close ups.

I seriously wonder if your unit is faulty? Have you tried the component connection out of interest?

No James, not at all - it's a consumer digital camera hand-held beside the screen. Nothing too fancy.

Have you compared the RP133 pattern at both 1080i and 1080p?

I didn't get a chance to try out Component, no. But like my devices, the Component outs on this player are limited to 1080i, so there'd be nothing to compare.

Hi David - yes, I've compared the RP133 pattern using 1080i and 1080p/24 on my unit. I can confirm interlace and non interlace when pointing my canon still camera at the TV, the interlaced mode produces the familiar "TV flicker (of old) on the canon's LCD.

The RP133 pattern however doesn't fit the screen correctly in 1080i but does in 1080p, which is perhaps a different fault...!

Any good places to share two 3meg JPGs ?

Email me them to lyris1 at gmail.com and I'll put 'em up.

David - thanks for your reply, and I've replied to your email with some more attachments.

(anyone else, my EP30 isn't showing the problems David's did).

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